have to get the debt down. the debt ceiling may get raised, but it's not being tackled long-term. >> it seems every single time consistently we get the opposite outcome. which means some areas are consistent and it raises debt levels going forward. >> it seems to me as though we can't fix this one because democratically it's not possible. why? because there are so many verses who are automatically vote to increase the debt because the number of people who own entitlements or benefits is relatively high. and i think you're seeing this failure both in the u.s., in germany and to an extent in the uk. >> the trouble is for all of those economies maybe some of the european ones are under pressure by the government. but the problem is, if you look at issues in the u.s., they're just so low. there's no ability to cut in the long-term. how do you push through entitlement reform and address those issues, especially if there's no market pressure right now? >> my sense is that you don't. i don't understand how that can be